Quote: Timbo @ August 15 2008, 11:21 AM BST

Based on the first one, which is the only one I have read, they are a peculiar melange of derivative fantasy and elitist public school novel cosiness, laced with some rather obvious humour.

View original

You're falling into the trap of forgetting that it's almost exclusively writers and critics who give a shit about humour being "obvious". To every other person in the country, funny is funny, whether you know what the punchline or outcome of the tale will be. It just doesn't matter to the people your work has to appeal to. Similarly with the accusation of "derivative" fantasy. No one else gives a shit.

And I have no idea what's wrong with public schools etc.
 

---

Aaron
BSG Forums & DVDs Editor
Half man, half Internet, half TV.
(Loyal follower of The Magical Aura of Laura.)

 

Neil Gaiman. Stephen King, Charles Dickens, Graham Joyce all wrote decent kid stories.

What I meant was when you can't use sex, violence, or overly complex ideas it throws an author down on their most basic skills. That said Salman Rushdie writes kids books and sucks.
 

---

The ASDA of satire.

I hate purity, I hate goodness!I don't want any virtue to exist anywhere. I want everyone to be corrupt to the bones.

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

1984
 

Quote: Griff @ August 15 2008, 11:23 AM BST

And I suspect that many of the people reading JK Rowling hadn't read all those other series you mention (Alan Garner is terrific too, as is Lloyd Alexander if you've ever read him) and so the Potter books didn't seem derivative and unoriginal to them. JKR came along with her particular twist on that genre after a long gap, so the market was ready for new stuff.

View original

And that.
 

---

Aaron
BSG Forums & DVDs Editor
Half man, half Internet, half TV.
(Loyal follower of The Magical Aura of Laura.)

 

Quote: Aaron @ August 15 2008, 11:08 AM BST

There's a perfectly logical resaon. They're fucking ace stories, well told, and with great imagination that makes it feel both plausible, and fantastical. But perhaps you have to be more of my age in order to appreciate it properly.

View original

No I appreciate all you say. Well certainly for the first couple. And no I can appreciate them - I am a long time fan of the genre. Am writing a fantasy novel bit by bit myself. A cross between a Sam Spade novel and a Robert E Howard one - A Private Barbarian story if you will.

But the Potter thing is a non recurring phenonemon, that kind of engendered itself as it grew into something never seen before. It was a craze like the hula hoop or the Beatles. Kids had to have the Potter book as much as an artifact in itself, if not more, than for the story within.
 

It drew attention to Phil Pullmanm he is ace.
 

---

The ASDA of satire.

I hate purity, I hate goodness!I don't want any virtue to exist anywhere. I want everyone to be corrupt to the bones.

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

1984
 

Quote: Aaron @ August 15 2008, 11:27 AM BST

You're falling into the trap of forgetting that it's almost exclusively writers and critics who give a shit about humour being "obvious". To every other person in the country, funny is funny, whether you know what the punchline or outcome of the tale will be. It just doesn't matter to the people your work has to appeal to. Similarly with the accusation of "derivative" fantasy. No one else gives a shit.

View original

Sorry that is complete nonsense. Only writers care if jokes are obvious? Bollocks.

No-one cares if fantasy is derivative? They do if they have read any other fantasy.

Quote:

And I have no idea what's wrong with public schools etc.

Children identify with the young wizards, that is to be expected, just as I in my local comp identified with Jennings. But adults should have the insight to recognise that they are muggles, who have not been born into a world of privilege.
 

Quote: Marc P @ August 15 2008, 11:32 AM BST

No I appreciate all you say. Well certainly for the first couple. And no I can appreciate them - I am a long time fan of the genre. Am writing a fantasy novel bit by bit myself. A cross between a Sam Spade novel and a Robert E Howard one - A Private Barbarian story if you will.

View original

I didn't mean exclusively. Just more likelihood that they'd appeal to me age group - when the first book was published, I was the exact same age as Harry was meant to be.

Quote: Marc P @ August 15 2008, 11:32 AM BST

Kids had to have the Potter book as much as an artifact in itself, if not more, than for the story within.

View original

Ah I see. Yes. Well that part of it can certainly be attributed to the media and merchandising machine!
 

---

Aaron
BSG Forums & DVDs Editor
Half man, half Internet, half TV.
(Loyal follower of The Magical Aura of Laura.)

 

I always identified with Sauron when reading Lord Of The Rings.
 

---

"'Reality,' sa molesworth 2, 'is so unspeakably sordid it make me shudder.'"

 

Quote: Griff @ August 15 2008, 11:23 AM BST

Alan Garner is terrific too, as is Lloyd Alexander if you've ever read him

View original

Lloyd Alexander rocks.

Quote: Aaron @ August 15 2008, 11:38 AM BST

Ah I see. Yes. Well that part of it can certainly be attributed to the media and merchandising machine!

View original

I actually think it was the kids themselves who gave the craze its momentum.
 

I kinda wanted Snape to kill Harry and bury him some where.

Voldemort is a bit rubbish as villains go.

But Snape and Hermione doing a Natural Born Killers with magic would be cool.
 

---

The ASDA of satire.

I hate purity, I hate goodness!I don't want any virtue to exist anywhere. I want everyone to be corrupt to the bones.

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

1984
 

Quote: Timbo @ August 15 2008, 11:35 AM BST

Sorry that is complete nonsense. Only writers care if jokes are obvious? Bollocks.

View original

So thaaaaaat's why After You've Gone, My Family, and My Hero, Two Pints, and everything else which is hated around here, were such utter failures! Yes, I get you now!

Quote: Timbo @ August 15 2008, 11:35 AM BST

But adults should have the insight to recognise that they are muggles, who have not been born into a world of privilege.

View original

So what?

Quote: Timbo @ August 15 2008, 11:39 AM BST

I actually think it was the kids themselves who gave the craze its momentum.

View original

Well something does have to have an audience in order for it to become popular, no matter what any merchandise or media machine may do. But the latter fuelled it, and kept it alive and sustained.
 

---

Aaron
BSG Forums & DVDs Editor
Half man, half Internet, half TV.
(Loyal follower of The Magical Aura of Laura.)

 

Quote:

So thaaaaaat's why After You've Gone, My Family, and My Hero, Two Pints, and everything else which are hated around here, were such utter failures!

To be fair, everyone around here hates Lab Rats too.
 

---

"'Reality,' sa molesworth 2, 'is so unspeakably sordid it make me shudder.'"

 

Quote: Griff @ August 15 2008, 11:47 AM BST

To be fair, everyone around here hates Lab Rats too.

View original

But that's not because of the jokes. It's just shit.


There are some constants in human life which cannot be argued.
 

---

Aaron
BSG Forums & DVDs Editor
Half man, half Internet, half TV.
(Loyal follower of The Magical Aura of Laura.)

 

Quote: Timbo @ August 15 2008, 11:35 AM BST

But adults should have the insight to recognise that they are muggles, who have not been born into a world of privilege.

View original

I always thought the books were saying the exact opposite. Namely, that even the existence of magic doesn't change the human condition and that being born privileged doesn't mean anything at all or rather that the believe in being born privileged (or "better") is the cause of conflicts.

I read the books as being critical of technology and society and thought they were transporting some moral statements than can be universally acctepted without being patronising. But that's just stupid me reading children's books, I guess.
 

---

I has magic Macbook healing powers.
 

Quote: Aaron @ August 15 2008, 11:47 AM BST

So thaaaaaat's why After You've Gone, My Family, and My Hero, Two Pints, and everything else which are hated around here, were such utter failures! Yes, I get you now!

View original

Oddly enough, I do not think any of those shows are really loved, in the same way that genuinely good mainstream shows such as Porridge or Rising Damp are loved. And it is certainly not only writers and critics who actively dislike them.

Quote: Aaron @ August 15 2008, 11:47 AM BST

So what?

View original

For this type of fiction the reader should be able to identify with the protagonist. It seems odd to identify with someone who looks down on you.